Archive for category: Social Media

John Jantsch (00:00): Hey, did you know that HubSpot’s annual inbound conference is coming up? That’s right. It’ll be in Boston from September 5th through the eighth. Every year inbound brings together leaders across business, sales, marketing, customer success, operations, and more. You’ll be able to discover all the latest must know trends and tactics that you can actually put into place to scale your business in a sustainable way. You can learn from industry experts and be inspired by incredible spotlight talent. This year. The likes of Reese Witherspoon, Derek Jeter, guy Raz are all going to make appearances. Visit inbound.com and get your ticket today. You won’t be sorry. This programming is guaranteed to inspire and recharge. That’s right. Go to inbound.com to get your ticket today.

(01:03): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Dave Dodson. Dave’s on the faculty of Stanford University’s Graduate School of Business where he guides students in tactical execution. He was a McKinsey and Company consultant and he left to become a serial entrepreneur where he operated six companies as CEO or Executive Chairman. He’s a co-founder of Sanku, a company that developed the only successful technology to fortify grains with lifesaving micronutrients in rural African mills. Sanku was listed by Fast Company as one of the most innovative companies, and named by Time magazine’s 100 best inventions. We’re gonna talk about his book called The Manager’s Handbook: Five Simple Steps to Build a Team, Stay Focused, Make Better Decisions, and Crush Your Competition. Boy, a lot of promise in that . Dave, welcome to the show.

Dave Dodson (02:01): Good to be here.

John Jantsch (02:02): So this may seem like a really dumb question, but I think it’s actually going to be helpful to hear how you actually define the term manager.

Dave Dodson (02:12): Yeah. You know, John, I struggled quite a bit with whether I should be saying entrepreneur or manager or leader and manager seems sort of vanilla, right? Yeah. But that’s what most of us do every day. We’re managing and one of the things I wanted to do with the manager’s handbook is to take it from sort of some lofty concept down to what do you do every day Monday morning so you can get stuff done?

John Jantsch (02:33): Yeah. Cuz you’re right. I mean, entrepreneurs, business owners, you know, they, they may not have manager in their title, but they wear the manager hat every day. Right.

Dave Dodson (02:42): 100%. And the biggest leap that somebody makes is not becoming a manager per se, where you’ve got two or three people reporting to you, but it’s when you become a manager of managers because then you can’t cheat anymore. You can’t sort of stay up late or redo someone’s work. You have to manage through the organization. And one of the magical things about it, if you learn the skills on how to manage managers, is that’s completely scalable. All the way up to running the biggest companies in the world. Yeah.

John Jantsch (03:10): So, so with your McKinsey and Company credentials, you know, you had to have a framework here, right? Five simple steps, uh, to build a team. So kind of in obviously a great deal is drawn from your own experience managing companies and teams. How’d you come up with five steps that, that you lean on as being really the critical elements?

Dave Dodson (03:33): Well, first of all, I am the least likely entrepreneur. I grew up in rural Colorado. The closest town was about 300 population of 300, and we were kind of divided between farmers and ranchers. And I was on the farmer’s side cuz my dad made farm equipment. My, my stepdad built houses and my two grandfathers, one ran an auto dealer and the other ran a coal mine of all things. And what links all four of these people together is all of their businesses failed. Huh. And so I should have just gone out and been a McKinsey consultant, but I didn’t want to do that for whatever reason. In spite of that background, I decided to wa wanted to be an entrepreneur, and things were going well. And then the first time I really stubbed my toe hard and I was like, holy smokes, everything I do doesn’t work out.

(04:22): That’s when I started to look around and say, how come some people are just better at getting stuff done than other people? And that led to this three, three year search really to try to understand what is the difference. And what I quickly realized is the difference is not that people have certain attributes, they’re born a certain way, they’re charismatic, introvert, extrovert, but that they’ve mastered five skills. And I wasn’t looking John for a framework when I wrote that the manager’s handbook. I was just out of curiosity, and it just ended up being five skill areas that was universal. I don’t care who you were, you, Oprah Winfrey, you know, Rupert Murdoch, everybody mastered these five skills. It’s very interesting.

John Jantsch (04:59): And when we’re gonna call them skills, I mean, there is a o obviously there’s an implication that that can be learned, that can be practiced , that, you know, it does take intention to, you know, to bring them into every meeting. So let’s dive Well, well first off, I, I want you to identify the five skills kind of in the compact organization, but then, then I’ll sort of dip my toe into each of those and ask you to go a little deeper on something.

Dave Dodson (05:25): Yeah. So for example, the first one was the ability to build a team, right? The second one was an ability to set and then adhere to priorities. One was to be able to take advice from others, be able to seek and take advice. Another was to be a good custodian of your time. And then the last one was to be fanatical about quality. So those were the five. And I, again, I didn’t start out looking for five, but I ended up with those five. But then I had this predicament, John, because I didn’t wanna create a PowerPoint presentation or have a academic paper now that I teach at Stanford. I wanted something that people use. And so the trick was then how do you convert this insight that I had into a practical way that people could easily acquire these skills? Yeah. And that, that was my biggest challenge, honestly. Yeah.

John Jantsch (06:09): All right. So let’s dive into the first one. Team building, you know, frankly, every leadership book, every book on running a company, and it has at least a chapter right on this, because obviously if you’re gonna grow a business, you know you’re not gonna do it all by yourself. There’s a couple things that show up higher for outcomes, 360 degree, you know, reviews. I mean, what do you feel like you’re adding kind of new to that whole genre really, of leadership books?

Dave Dodson (06:35): Oh my gosh. You know, I teach at the Sanford Business School, right? And every class says, you gotta build a team. You gotta, but nobody says how to do it. Right? The inside here is that act. Actually, interestingly enough, John, it was, I was watching somebody play the piano, and I was thinking about how do you learn to play the piano? And I realized, well, first you learn how to get, position your fingers over the keyboard, 88 keys. Then you learn the difference between a sharp and a flat. Then you learn what the pedals do. And I realized that you learn to play the piano because you learn a set of sub skills, you combine ’em together and you can play the piano. And I realized the same thing was true with these five skills. So in, in, to use your example about building a team, then I looked at, okay, of the people who were great at building a team, this is not about how I did things.

(07:20): I studied the best, the very best leaders for the manager’s handbook. What were the characteristics or what were the, the sub-skills that they had mm-hmm. that led to building a team. So you mentioned 360, doing 360 reviews. So in as few pages as possible, I describe how to master how to do a 360 review, the questions to ask, who should ask the questions, how you curate the information. Then at the end of each chapter, I have a checklist. So when you get ready to do it, you don’t have to reread the chapter, because I wanted this to be a book that you could use. And I did not want it to be a, an inspirational book where you read it and you got all excited while you’re reading it, and then Monday you do the same thing over again.

John Jantsch (07:59): So hiring for outcomes has become a, a pretty hot topic, I think mainly because, you know, the whole quiet quitting or whatever the silly terms of, of the day are about those, that, that, I think it’s changing how people think about who they hire and who they, you know, what, who needs to be doing what roles and how to keep them happy at work. So talk a little bit about this idea of how hiring for outcomes and how that’s different than say, hiring for resume experience.

Dave Dodson (08:26): Yeah. So I completely turned the whole notion of hiring on its head. And you start with building a scorecard, which is what is, what do you want this person to do? Not what they did, not what their credentials are, but what you want them to do. And then you hire against it. So I remember when I first started hiring, I looked at clever interview questions. So this question that I used to ask everybody is, when you close the refrigerator door, how do you know the light goes out? and I, it was just, I was just impressed with myself, you know, and it was a creative answer, but that had nothing to do with the job and what I wanted someone to do. And so now what I’ve done is I’ve learned that you say, okay, what do I want this person to, I want them to drive sales by 15%.

(09:08): I don’t care what school they went to. I don’t care how old they are, I don’t care what they do before. Can they drive sales by 15%, sales by 15%? And then you ask the question, well, how will I know? What are the things that I can do to determine that? And that’s what you interview against. And it’s a completely different way to interview. And by the way, though, in terms of insights of the book, I do this all in about 15, 20 pages. You don’t need to read seven books on hiring to learn how to be good at hiring.

John Jantsch (09:32): But you could because it’s currently, it’s a very large section in the bookstore. All right, so let’s move on to time. And this is a tough one. Another one that there’s an entire category probably in the bookstores. There’s one I want you to really focus on curing the digital disaster.

Dave Dodson (09:50): Oh my gosh, , you know, before the digital age, the average executive had got a thousand pieces of communication. A year.

John Jantsch (10:00): A

Dave Dodson (10:00): Year. Wow. Today it’s 30,000. 30,000 and growing John. Yeah. And all these productivity tools are just making us less productive. So we all know it’s a mess out there. We all know that we read unproductive email. In fact, 50%, it’s reported 50% of the email that we read, we don’t think we needed to read. So we all know we have a problem. But the problem, but the issue is we wake up every morning, we do the same thing over and over again. So I didn’t wanna just sort of present a problem that everybody knows, and I didn’t wanna ask people to radically change how they think and how they behave and where their habits are and where their weaknesses are. So I said, you know what? I’m gonna give you seven tips. You do these seven tips and you’ll save 40 minutes a day. That’s it. And so that’s kind of throughout the book. That’s what I do, is I say, look, I’m not gonna try to change your life. I’m gonna give you seven things to do tomorrow morning that will solve this problem.

John Jantsch (10:53): Yeah, I actually just hired somebody to delete email for me. That was the solution to that one.

Dave Dodson (10:58): Well, John, I’m glad you answered my emails, at least. .

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(12:27): So, so the next category is advisors. So, you know, especially since we’re addressing the manager’s handbook, you know, where does a board or a mentor, you know, fit into a company’s structure or an individual’s structure?

Dave Dodson (12:43): Yeah, you don’t have to be the CEO and you don’t have to have a board of directors to be really good at seeking and taking advice. And, you know, as a, as an effective manager, you wanna do two things. You wanna be able to make decisions on a timely basis, and you also wanna make right decisions. And most of the problems that day-to-day managers face are not new. Someone has already faced those problems. So the idea is to go out and create a group of advisors that you can use, either formal or informally, and then know how to use them. So what I do is, first of all, I say, here’s the criteria that you look for finding an advisor. You don’t let it be, don’t let ’em ha happen randomly or organically. Go find those people. And then how do you use ’em?

(13:23): So, so John, I get called all the time from my former students, and I’m an investor in about a hundred companies, CEOs who call me, and usually most of the time is utterly wasted. I’ll have a, I’ll have a 30 minute call with someone and they’ll take 27 minutes to describe the problem. So what I do is I say, here is a simple four-step process on how to have a really effective 15 minute call with an advisor where they hang up the phone and they feel like, wow, I really added value. I hope this person calls me back again. And instead of you telling stories about your problem, you hung up the phone and you thought, okay, I got my problem solved. Now I can go work on something else. Yeah,

John Jantsch (14:01): Yeah. All right. Priorities. Y you know, the thing that jumped out to me in that section is I think everybody’s accepted whether they use it or not, that they need a business plan or a marketing plan. Those are kind of accepted things you introduced to something that I personally haven’t heard said this way makes total sense. But I’d wonder if you could unpack the operating plan.

Dave Dodson (14:21): Yeah, so the kind of, one of the many things that I turn on its head in the Man manager’s handbook is don’t this whole thing about an annual budget, forget about it. That’s just a crystal ball guess on what your sales are gonna be or whatever it is. What you need is an operating plan and an operating plan. You go through a process and I walk people through the process that you go through to figure out what are the two or three things that you need to work on over the following year in order to move the company forward. And one of the things that was screamed out, whether I was looking at Warren Buffett or Steve Jobs or any of the other managers, that we all look back and we say, wow, I wanna be like them. They were brutal about setting and adhering to priorities.

(15:04): And in fact, Steve Jobs has his famous quote, he was at the Apple Worldwide Conference, and he says, he said, you have to say, you have to learn to say no. And when you say that, it pisses people off, but it’s the only way you can get things done. And I’m quite close to one of his former board members, Andrea Jung, and I’ve talked to her about Steve Job and is the myth about him being so relentless about setting priorities and having an operating plan? True. And she said, I’ve never met anybody who was more brutal with priorities than Steve Jobs in, in fact, Joni Ives, who I I who was his design developer, sorry, he was the chief designer for Apple. And he said that Steve Jobs would come to him almost on a daily basis and said, what have you said no to today?

John Jantsch (15:49): Yeah. And that’s, you know, obviously we’re talking about Apple, but I mean, down to the three person, you know, entrepreneurial, you know, venture, you’re gonna get 27 emails today, that 26 of which you need to say no to. But it’s tough. I mean, it takes a real discipline, doesn’t it? Because it, there are so many things that are going to come at you, and some of them look like real opportunities. And if you don’t have those two or three priorities, it’s pretty easy to say yes and get sidetracked, isn’t it?

Dave Dodson (16:16): Oh, it is. And the, yeah, two insights for me is one, setting an adhering to priorities is not about not doing the things you shouldn’t do. That’s easy. It’s supposed to, that’s table stakes, , it’s a saying no to things that are re that are is a really great idea that you really wanna do, but you know that you’ll never get to it. That’s when you know you’re being good at setting and hearing to priorities. And the other insight was, you know, I drive home when, when I was running companies, I drive home and I’d go, oh, that’s a great idea. We should do that. And then I’d walk in and I’d say, okay, let’s do this too. And then they, then nothing would happen. I’d say, how come these guys can’t keep up with me? The organization moves so slow. Well, the problem is that it’s so easy to ideate. It’s so, it takes so little time to come up with a great idea, but the people who have to implement it, they’re the ones who have to hire people and get leases and negotiate agreements and find vendors and so forth. So, so just recognizing that ideating takes about a minute and implementing takes weeks and weeks.

John Jantsch (17:12): Well, not to mention that it takes your eye off the ball of what they’re actually got some momentum on already, because, you know, identified that as a priority. That’s another, it’s sort of the cost, the, you know, cost of not doing what you said you were gonna do. So the fifth one is quality. And boy, this is a tough one because, I mean, again, this one’s a really easy one to say. I think everybody, nobody will argue with you about, you know, quality being a huge component, but it’s also a tough one. I mean, it, what I’ve discovered is that it, it is really probably more, more closely aligned with culture than it is with any set of, you know, mandates. So, so how do you make, you know, quality, obsession, a part of culture?

Dave Dodson (17:55): So nothing about the manager’s handbook is about slogans or attributes or anything. It is a how to manual. So, so for example, there’s a chapter on how do you find out from a practical way, how do you find out what your, how your customers view quality, literally down to what are the types of questions you should ask your customers and what types of question, what types of customers you should ask. So, so there’s a chapter on how do you define quality. So it’s not just a slogan, you know, let’s go out there and be good to our customers. You gotta find out what matters to them. Then there’s a chapter on how do you, how do you measure quality? And there’s a lot of ways you measure quality that are all historical. They’re, they’re trailing indicators like NPS would that, well, that by the time you get a bad NPS score, John, you’re already, your customers are already disappointed. So the book says, how do you find out what the leading indicators are and how your customers are feeling so they, so you create happy customers, not how you identify whether what you did worked or not. So every chapter is a how-to,

John Jantsch (18:58): So we’ve all read books, even books that, as you said are, you know, very, very practical, how would you know? But then we have our job, right? We read the book, , we have our job. So how would you recommend that somebody go about making this book, something that sticks, making the ideas in this book stick?

Dave Dodson (19:17): Well, I tried to write it as much as a Paint by numbers book as possible. And I had this kind of post-it note that said, write the book you wish someone handed you, you know, and then I didn’t have to write it out, but when I first became a manager, so that was my watchword throughout the whole thing. Then I said, okay, how do you structure the book in a way that makes it a how to manual? So one of the big insights of the book, or one of the structures of the book is at the end of every chapter, there’s a single page that just says, here are seven things, or here are 10 things. There’s no gimmick. E if there’s only seven, I only put seven down there that you need to remember so that when you go out and you’re doing a 360 review, you don’t have to reread the whole book, just go to page whatever it is, the last page of that chapter and go, oh yeah, I got it.

(20:02): And then the, so, so, so it’s written in a way that you read it once and then you’ve got basically, you know, 22 little quick references. And then the last part is that, and this is the hard part, I’d written the whole book and I was sitting down with a mentor of mine, a guy who’s given me a lot of guidance of Michael Porter, who’s sort of the Michael Jordan of MBA professors written 19 books. And he was helping me with the book. He had read the book and he said, you know, the problem with your book is you created a checklist and people are gonna just pick the pieces that they want off of here, and they’re only gonna pick the easy ones. And he said, what you actually created here was a unifying theory of execution. And he showed me that, you know, you can’t, to go into things that John, you and I talked about today, you can’t put together a good operating plan unless you have a good team and you can’t have a good team or, and you can’t execute that if you’re not providing good quality, etcetera, etcetera.

(20:58): Mm-hmm. . And he said, what you have to get your readers to do is your readers have to understand that you can’t just pick and choose, you’ve gotta put all the pieces together. Just like if you wanna play the piano, you can’t learn everything, but the difference between a sharp and a flat, you gotta learn that part too. And that’s the difference between the people who, you know, there’s the whole skill thing, but there’s also, are you committed to really becoming a good manager? And if you are, you gotta learn these five skills. There’s no way around it. Awesome.

John Jantsch (21:26): Well, Dave, we, I appreciate you taking a moment to stop by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. You want to invite people to, to where they might find your book, uh, obviously also where they might connect with you.

Dave Dodson (21:37): Yeah, so the two really easy places go on barnesandnoble.com and pre-order or Amazon pre-order. Those are, you know, the two kind of classic places to order the manager’s handbook by myself, David Dodson. And easy way to reach me is through my, uh, just go on the Stanford University website.

John Jantsch (21:55): Awesome. And the book will be out, depending upon when you’re listening to this show. The book will be out in mid July of 2023. So you can either pre-order or order when it’s available at all your fine book sellers. So Dave, again, thanks so much for stopping by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast and hopefully we’ll run into you one of these days out there on the road. Hey, and one final thing before you go. You know how I talk about marketing strategy, strategy before tactics? Well, sometimes it can be hard to understand where you stand in that, what needs to be done with regard to creating a marketing strategy. So we created a free tool for you. It’s called the Marketing Strategy Assessment. You can find it @marketingassessment.co not.com. Co. check out our free marketing assessment and learn where you are with your strategy today. That’s just marketing assessment.co. I’d love to chat with you about the results that you get.

John Jantsch (00:00): Hey, did you know that HubSpot’s annual inbound conference is coming up? That’s right. It’ll be in Boston from September 5th through the 8th. Every year inbound brings together leaders across business, sales, marketing, customer success, operations, and more. You’ll be able to discover all the latest must know trends and tactics that you can actually put into place to scale your business in a sustainable way. You can learn from industry experts and be inspired by incredible spotlight talent. This year. The likes of Reese Witherspoon, Derek Jeter, Guy Raz are all going to make appearances. Visit inbound.com and get your ticket today. You won’t be sorry. This programming is guaranteed to inspire and recharge. That’s right. Go to inbound.com to get your ticket today.

(01:03): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John Jantsch. My guest today is Rodney Zemmel. He’s a co-leader of the McKinsey Digital Practice, a senior partner based in New York, and a member of McKinsey’s Shareholders Council. The firm’s board of directors serves clients across a range of industries on growth strategy, performance improvement, and value creation by harnessing the power of data and analytics, digital culture and capabilities, and modernizing core technology. We’re gonna talk about a book that he co-authored called Rewired: The McKinsey’s Guide to Out Competing in the Age of Digital and AI. So Rodney, welcome to the show.

Rodney Zemmel (01:46): Thanks for having me on, John, it’s a pleasure to be here.

John Jantsch (01:48): So I have to ask as an author also, but as an author who basically has only an editor to answer to, I’m wondering how, how writing a McKinsey guide like so a, a tool that’s effectively going to represent the brand and be put out there as the tool that everybody uses. How much collaboration or maybe fighting goes on to structure a book like that?

Rodney Zemmel (02:11): Your podcast is only 20 minutes, right? ? So it’s actually, I think this is the first book that we’ve ever put the words McKinsey Guide on. Okay. So this was a very conscious step on our part. Yeah. And the model we had in mind, there’s a book called Valuation, which our, our firm has had an updated every year for the past 20 years or more. And that really is like the guide for corporate finance executives on how to value a company. And it’s sort of become like a standard business school textbook. Yeah. There’s no equivalent in the world of digital. And there’s a bit of a sense that digital was a bit sort of the wild west in terms of, oh, it’s all about agile and people improvise the method and you can’t measure things as well. And you know, you’ve gotta try it and see, and we don’t believe that, right? We believe there is a systematic method that has proven to get results. That’s what we tried to create. And the three of us who did this together, myself, Kate, and Eric, we actually worked together and different clients around the world all the time. So we had a lot of fun on it. So, you know, there was maybe, you know, debates around the best way to say something or whose data and whose examples to use, but there wasn’t much, uh, sort of real, you know, real, real tension and putting it together.

John Jantsch (03:19): So, so is this the, you know, junior consultant at McKinsey’s, you know, book to take into a client and say, this is, you know, we’re gonna walk work through, you know, each of the sections here. Obviously everybody’s different, but I mean, is that how you see it?

Rodney Zemmel (03:32): I actually think this is the client’s book to read, right? And for them to like understand how to do things themselves in their own organizations, and of course by all means, call us if there’s a need to help. But, you know, we actually do think there’s a better way to do this. And you know, we know the fact that only 30% of digital transformations are hitting the value that they’re intended to hit. And we wanna see the world do better. And frankly, we we’re, we’re far enough down the learning curve here that I know we’re putting sort of a lot of intellectual property out in the world through publishing this book and, you know, anybody that can have it and therefore, you know, do you, do you need to call us or not? We’re confident that this is about sort of a learning journey for clients and people who are further down the learning curve are always gonna want to get better and better. So I feel like we’ve sort of published the, you know, the 2.0 version here and there’s always gonna be a 3.0 and a 4.0 that people will need help on.

John Jantsch (04:25): So why rewired? I mean, I think a lot of people would say, well, you know, for the last 20 years I guess since we came on the internet, we’ve been wired, right? I, again, I’m tossing that up for you to smack it outta the park, but, but I think that, you know, a lot of people would think, why are we having to rewire what’s different?

Rodney Zemmel (04:44): Great

John Jantsch (04:44): Question. Is it just an evolution?

Rodney Zemmel (04:46): No. So I look, I I’ll give you an example, uh, the answer to that using like generative AI, which is like the hottest conversation topic in the world right now, right? Generative AI is the coolest thing and it’s deceptively easy to go pilot and go trying your business, you know, in the marketing function, in customer engagement and go do a cool pilot and get things up and running. However, it’s really hard to get it working at enterprise scale and get real measurable value from it, right? So if you wanna write somebody a birthday poem or if you want to on a one-off basis send some cool customized things to a customer, it’s easy to do. If you want to build a system where you can send tens of thousands of customized things to customers every day in a way that is safe, in a way that really reflects the personalization preferences of that customer in a way that doesn’t let bias creep in a way that has measurable economic impact, then it’s not enough just to go launch a piece of technology. You actually need to rewire your commercial function around that technology. So there’s this idea that it’s not about like, you know, sticking a coat of paint on it that you actually do need to go and fundamentally rewire the house to take advantage of these technologies.

John Jantsch (05:58): A and do you get the sense that all over, you know, companies in, in all over the world that there are little pockets of people just doing this on their own and that’s that there’s a real danger in what you of not sort of institutionalizing, you know, whatever methods you take.

Rodney Zemmel (06:12): Absolutely. So, you know, when we did our interviews with companies, so what we tried to do is say, look who’s creating value from digital transformation? And you know, there’s about a quarter of companies who we think are really hitting their economic targets between 25 and 30%, depending on the kind of transformation. And we did interviews with them and then we did interviews with the ones who were missing and then with some who were somewhere in between. And one of the most common things we heard, like one of the most common failure modes was I’ve got more pilots than an aircraft carrier , right? So, you know, a CEO or a chief marketing officer says, you know, we’re going big on personalization, we’re going big on digital customer engagement and next thing you know, it’s everywhere. But there isn’t actually a top down roadmap of how to do it with real milestones and metrics and uh, around it.

(07:01): And a real fundamental change in the operating model. If you’ll let me actually, sorry, this maybe a longer answer than you’re looking for, but there’s a beautiful example in the banking industry. Um, so if you use any banking app, right, the customer banking apps, the private banking apps, whatever, every bank’s app is basically the same, right? Some are designed a little bit better than others, but they all have the same functionality. So we were at a round table with consumer banking CEOs and a few of them said, you know, digital is table stakes. It’s something we have to invest in, but it’s not, uh, competitively differentiating. We said, we don’t think that’s true, let’s actually go look at the data. And what we did was we got the data on actually how they were doing digital. We looked outside in and did some interviews at the work practices across the different banks, and then we looked at their economics and we saw that actually again, it was about the same ratio.

(07:47): About 25% of them were actually making money. Were showing positive return on equity, were showing positive growth per, in value per customer through their digital initiatives. You could not tell that if you just looked at the customer apps, right? They were the same mm-hmm. , you could tell that if you started asking questions like, how does business and technology work together in your organization, right? Do you really have a proper agile operating model? Right? Do you have a single set of digital priorities across the company? Do you have a, a clear technology architecture with the specific set of features to it? Do you have, so when you went through and it sort of wasn’t just, you know, the front of house, but that actually rewired all the way from front to back, those were the ones who were making money from it.

John Jantsch (08:32): Yeah. It’s kinda like the apps were just an interface and really nothing more .

Rodney Zemmel (08:36): Yeah, yeah. And the necessary, right, but not sufficient.

John Jantsch (08:39): Yeah, they were, they, they replaced tellers though is how they looked at it. So, so the book is broken up into sections. The first one really is the transformation roadmap. So I mean, how are you advising people? Because just what you explained was a transformation of how somebody would look at their entire business. So what, you know, how does somebody start addressing, you know, what is essentially, you know, a line by line audit of everything they’re doing?

Rodney Zemmel (09:04): Yeah. So I don’t think it shouldn’t feel like an audit, right? So I will, I’ll use generative AI as an example again, right? So I was with a company a couple of weeks ago who said they’ve got 75 different pilots going across their organization on Gen AI. And their question for us was how should they organize and govern those and prioritize them and resource them and so on. And you know, answer to that a little bit qui is don’t do that, right? It’s just right. If you’re doing 75 things in this new and fast moving area, you’re not gonna be able to do them well. What you actually need to do is to step back and say, where is the value really going to be in changing your business? And yes, there are easy things to do with gen ai, maybe in HR around recruitment or maybe in finance with, you know, being able to pull from different feeds across your finance systems and so on.

(09:53): But is that really gonna drive differentiating value for your business? Is that something you should spend time on? Or is that something that all the various software companies you work with, they’re gonna go innovate within their own product? Instead, pick the area that’s unique to you and that can really drive value. Don’t pick tons of areas, pick one area. It has to be an area that’s big enough to matter. And our rule of thumb is 20% of ebitda, it’s not gonna drive a 20% EBITDA improvement in a particular area. It’s not gonna be big enough to sustain people’s attention. So pick an area unlike that and then develop the real plan around that. And it’s never gonna be one use case, right? A while ago, five years ago, there was this idea of like the silver bullet use case, right? If only we could do amazing, you know, supply chain forecasting, right? We wouldn’t get caught out in the chip shortages or whatever it is, but it’s multiple use cases that need to sort of feed together Our, our data actually says it’s 11 companies who had 11 use cases within a particular domain or adjacent domains were the ones who were more likely to sort of cut through into being in that quadrant that’s creating value.

John Jantsch (10:58): And now let’s hear a word from our sponsor, Marketing Made Simple. It’s a podcast hosted by Dr. JJ Peterson and is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. The audio destination for business professionals marketing made simple brings you practical tips to make your marketing easy and more importantly make it work. And in a recent episode, JJ and April chat with StoryBrand certified guides and agency owners about how to use ChatGPT for marketing purposes. We all know how important that is today. Listen to marketing made simple. Wherever you get your podcasts.

(11:34): Hey marketing agency owners, you know, I can teach you the key to doubling your business in just 90 days or your money back. Sound interesting. All you have to do is license our three-step process that’s gonna allow you to make your competitors irrelevant, charge a premium for your services and scale perhaps without adding overhead. And here’s the best part. You can license this entire system for your agency by simply participating in an upcoming agency certification intensive look, why create the wheel? Use a set of tools that took us over 20 years to create. And you can have ’em today, check it out at DTM world slash certification. That’s DTM world slash certification.

(12:22): So, so let’s talk about value then for a minute. Because some of the AI, for example, or some of the tech technology, digital technology, maybe it doesn’t deliver customer value, it actually delivers convenience or efficiency inside the organization. So would you look at that as a different, would you look at that value derived in that manner differently than you would say producing customer value or revenue?

Rodney Zemmel (12:48): So again, we’ve seen a shift here, right? So when we looked at our sort of digital transformation surveys of three, four years ago, cost was 70% of the focus, right? Um, and that’s because it was the most measurable part and because a lot of the early customer journeys were very tractable to cost. Like how can we, you know, get people out of branches, right? And into the app. How can we get people instead of making phone calls to using the website, right? And you can very easily look at, you know, sort of per employee productivity and manage that cost down what we’re seeing now, it’s not, that’s gone away, right? That’s still there, but there’s been a flip, I would say it’s now 70-30 growth to cost and even things that initially look like cost. So again, I’ll talk gen AI cuz it’s the flavor of the moment, right?

(13:34): Gen AI is gonna be a great way of saving cost in customer contact centers, but it’s even better at creating unbelievably strong customer engagement, right? I mean there’s this amazing survey from the UK where people who were using a gen AI chat bot, instead of talking to a real physician, they could tell it was a chat bot, right? So the original test was can you tell whether it’s a robot or a human? And they could tell it was a robot, however they found it more engaging and more empathetic, right? Than the real doctor, right? So if you think about what that means for a customer center, yes you’ll be able to save some costs, but more importantly you’ll be able to create a level of engagement that’s gonna drive cross sell, that’s gonna drive growth, that’s gonna drive new product ideas in a much better way than what you’re doing today. So we’re really seeing a shift to people using it for growth.

John Jantsch (14:22): Would you, are you seeing or are you advising companies that they might actually need to get different people or new people on the bus?

Rodney Zemmel (14:32): I’ll give you a yes, but right. So there was this giant trend, you know, five to eight years ago around go to Silicon Valley or you know, go to London or you know, New York and you know, sort of hire the cool kids from digital natives to come to your company. And that turned out to be a great way to change the dress code , but not a great way to change the corporate culture. And some of those people have been successful, but many of them have actually not stuck. And a little sprinkling of digital talent is not enough to change the company. So the whole sort of chapter two about talent here is as much about upskilling and re-skilling as it is about hiring in, you know, the digital natives. And we’ve been amazed by how far companies can go in particular companies that are in industries where there’s already a high degree of sort of numeracy like people with engineering backgrounds and so on, how far they can go with reskilling and up-skilling their existing workforce drive real digital impact.

(15:29): We work with a company in, in Baghdad that’s Baghdad, Arizona, not the other Baghdad a copper mine. And they’ve built an amazing data organization and I sort of feel like if you can do it in Baghdad, Arizona, which you know, it’s probably only a two hour flight from Silicon Valley, but it’s pretty far from Silicon Valley, sort of, you know, spiritually, if, if you can do it there then you know this idea that you need to be in one of the big metro areas and you need all the, you know, young digital native talent. It’s just not true.

John Jantsch (15:57): Yeah. And I’ve seen a lot of initial research that is suggesting, again, AI is actually allowing people with maybe less experience to do more complicated work. And so I think there is part of that, that they’re using the tools to, up to your term upscale, uh, some of the workers. But I think it’s also allowing people, you know, call center example, you know, they have access to real time answers and you know, they’re, even though they’re less skilled. So I think that’s, it’s a combination of those things probably.

Rodney Zemmel (16:24): That’s right. Provided you do it with the senior management layer as well. Right? So any upskilling needs to be about the frontline and the senior people.

John Jantsch (16:32): Are you finding that there are organizations that we maybe wouldn’t guess this to be true, that are just significantly behind in, in this, uh, rewiring?

Rodney Zemmel (16:42): You know, there’s a chart, I can’t remember if we put the chart in the book or not, actually I think we didn’t. But we have a survey that we call dq or Digital Quotient survey. And it’s basically a, a questionnaire you can rent to see how digital a company is. When we first started doing this, there were very nice patterns by industry, right? You’d see like high was all the way at one end and you know, public sector was all the way at the other end. Retail was somewhere in the middle. And you know, energy was also, you know, off to the slow end. What we see now is first all industries have moved, but second of all, the variation within industry is actually bigger than the variation between industries. Mm-hmm. So, you know, the energy company that has really embraced digital is as digital as the average high tech company. And the consumer goods company that’s been on laggard in embracing digital is as behind as, you know, the public sector or, or you know, or healthcare services company. So the spread has gone much, much wider. In addition to that, there’s a learning curve, right? It takes a while to get going, but then once people are going, you see them getting better and better on the digital quo.

John Jantsch (17:49): And are you also, is there a correlation with leadership inside of an industry by how you digital it is?

Rodney Zemmel (17:53): Great question. So one of the things we asked in the survey where we were passing the companies into sort of the digital leaders, the digital average and the digital magnets was how many people on your executive team are digitally savvy? Mm. And when I first saw the data from that, I actually thought the team was giving me a chart with like the dummy data. Like this was like the chart to fill in once we have the real data. Cuz the correlation was sort of perfect, but it turns out that was the real data. And if you have an executive team that might have, I don’t know, a dozen members on it, if you’ve got seven or more people who are digitally savvy, your chance of ending up in the high performing segment are really high, like 80%. And if you’ve got one or two people who are digitally savvy in that group, your chance of being in the high performing segment are less than 20%. So the thing it most clearly correlates with is actually the savvy, the tech savviness of your leadership. Now of course there’s correlation and causation there and you can debate the order and so on. Yeah, yeah. But it’s still very clear that, you know, it’s hard to be a digital leader if you’re just, if you know, if every conversation someone’s looking to the CDIO or the CMO, right? It needs to be the team.

John Jantsch (19:01): Yeah. So are you also seeing people wasting a lot of time and money on we gotta do that AI thing , because it’s the sexy thing of the moment.

Rodney Zemmel (19:10): You know, I, that’s sort of why we wrote the book. I mean, it’s, this is being done. There’s so much swirl, right? It sort of gives the field almost a bad name, right? There’s so many people who are running around, you know, saying they’re agile or, you know, launching the demonstration projects or talking about things in their annual report or in investor days that don’t actually follow all the way through. It’s just massive wasted effort. I mean, you know, if you’d have bought stock in the world, digital transformation in 2015, right? You’d be very wealthy now just based on word usage. This is why we’re sort of arguing for this more organized and less wasteful approach. And you know, while I’m excited about gen ai, I think part of the worry with Gen AI is there’s a little bit of a risk that it sends us, like back to 2018 in digital transformation where it’s just so easy to fire up these pilots. But if you don’t actually rewire the house, then you’re not gonna get the value from it.

John Jantsch (20:06): How, um, crippling is any of this without access to, uh, data inside an organization?

Rodney Zemmel (20:16): So there is no question that all these trains ride on rails of data, right? You need the data. So, but maybe like, maybe just a couple of surprises to us, or maybe they’re not surprises, but things that we learned did the research, first of all, it isn’t just about your own data, right? That there’s almost no company who’s been super successful here just relying on their own, you know, amazing trove of proprietary data. It’s actually about how you put your own data and the world’s data together in interesting and safe ways. That’s thing one. Think two is while data is critical, having the most modern systems in the world is not critical. And I think one of the big unlocks in digital transformation has been moving away from an excessive focus on core technology modernization and into a focus on solving back from where the value is.

(21:09): So we’ve worked with companies who’ve had the data, I mean literally in filing cabinets, right? Not even digitized, right? And by being very selective with what are you trying to do? Therefore, what data do you need? Now that data, the data you need, you know, does need to be in the cloud, right? But you can build very efficient now sort of cloud, you know, we explained in the book sort of cloud like data extraction layers, just focus around what you need and the old fashioned approach that says, first let’s build this like giant data lake with everything in it. Right? Then let’s splash around in the lake for a while and see what comes out. Right. Ends up being quite wasteful.

John Jantsch (21:45): Yeah. I mean that’s part of the challenge with data is there’s so much of it and we can measure everything. And like you said, most of it doesn’t matter, probably . Yeah.

Rodney Zemmel (21:53): But we would say in data, start back from where you think the value is. Think as much about the world’s data as your own data, and then think about quality over quantity. And then don’t get concerned about legacy systems. There’s almost always a workaround, right? To allow you to decou on looking at the data from, you know, pinging your system every time. Yeah.

John Jantsch (22:14): So final question. Uh, do you see Rewired making any, some fun summer beach reads, uh, list, uh, this year

Rodney Zemmel (22:23): ? I hope so. I’m certainly gonna be sitting on the beach reading it.

John Jantsch (22:28): The other problem is it’s a bit of a beast. So it, it was way down that bag.

Rodney Zemmel (22:32): You know, I just flew across the country with a few copies of it in my backpack and I certainly, uh, got, got some, uh, some exercise from it. Look, I think that it, it, it, it is definitely written to be dipped into, right? It is the manual to say, okay, let’s talk about technology. Right? Let’s go to chapter four on technology rather than the straight end-to-end read. But, uh, you know, I hope people, if people enjoy reading it nearly as much as we enjoyed writing it, then we’ll have succeeded.

John Jantsch (22:57): Awesome. Well, Rodney, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by, uh, the Duct Tape Marketing podcast. You wanna invite people where they might connect with you or obviously get a copy of the book.

Rodney Zemmel (23:07): Sure. I mean, all the info’s on, mckinsey.com or you can, uh, reach me directly on, uh, rodney_zemmel@mckinsey.com. And, uh, I hope you liked the book.

John Jantsch (23:17): Awesome. Well, again, I appreciate you taking a few moments to stop by and hopefully we’ll run into you one of these days, uh, soon out there on the road.

Rodney Zemmel (23:25): Fantastic. And John, you can read more about the book on, I think it’s mckinsey.co/rewired, but I’ll, I’ll correct that URL if I’m giving you the wrong URL

John Jantsch (23:33): Background. Okay. And we’ll have that in the show notes as well. All right.

Rodney Zemmel (23:36): Okay. Thank you.

John Jantsch (23:38): Hey, and one final thing before you go. You know how I talk about marketing strategy strategy before tactics? Well, sometimes it can be hard to understand where you stand in that, what needs to be done with regard to creating a marketing strategy. So we created a free tool for you. It’s called the Marketing Strategy Assessment. You can find it@marketingassessment.co, not.com. Co. Check out our free marketing assessment and learn where you are with your strategy today. That’s just marketing assessment.co. I’d love to chat with you about the results that you get.

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(01:03): Hello and welcome to another episode of the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast. This is John ch, and my guest today is Siri Lindley. She is a two-time world champion triathlete and winner of twelve ITU World Cup races. She’s the top female triathlon coach in the world, she’s guided Olympic medalists and Ironman champions to not only become better athletes but also better people. Siri is also a life coach, keynote speaker, and the Founder of two non-profit organizations: Believe Ranch and Rescue, and Horses in Our Hands Survivor and Thriver. And we’re gonna talk about her new book: Finding a Way: taking the Impossible and Making It Possible. So welcome to the show.

Siri Lindley (01:47): Well, thank you for having me, John. I’m thrilled to be here.

John Jantsch (01:51): So you took just like the most traditional path available to becoming a coach and author, and so your life has, and I’m sure you’ve spent a lot of time telling this, your life has some pretty amazing chapters. So have you found a way to kind of condense it into here’s, you know, here’s my background?

Siri Lindley (02:13): Well, you’re exactly right. And I think every single one of us have different chapters in our lives. And what I’ve realized in my life is that it’s been through my greatest challenges that I of course, experienced the greatest growth. And in those moments, you know, the decisions that I made in order to move out of a space of suffering are exactly the decisions that move me forward towards the life that I dreamed of living. But I think that my story, you know, as a kid, as a college student, I was overwhelmed with fear and anxiety. I was a student at Brown University, three sport varsity athlete, but on the inside I was just slowly dying. I was really suffering with anxiety. And in those days, people didn’t talk about anxiety, they didn’t talk about fear, they didn’t talk about ocd. So I thought I was just this crazy person.

(03:17): And this kind of led me to my greatest mentor, Tony Robbins, with his first book that he’d written Unlimited Power. And this book woke me up to the truth that I am the conductor of my own symphony of life. And if I don’t like the music I’m creating, which I didn’t, I was very unhappy. I’m the only one that has power to change me. And I think so often we forget that life is in our hands and we need to own the experience that we’re having because what we’re experiencing in life is a result of what we’re focusing on. The meaning we’re giving things and the decisions that we make, what we choose to do about it. And at that time, I was creating a tragedy. So I decided that instead of always focusing on everything that was missing, everything that was wrong, anding, that I had no control over everything that I didn’t wanna have happen, that I was gonna use the same discipline that I put into my studies and in my sports, and use that to discipline my focus in as many moments as possible to focus on what I wanted, what I loved, what I had, and what I could control.

(04:31): And that started, kind of took me out of this horrible space I was in at that time, leading me to wanting to figure out who the heck I am. Because are, yeah, sorry, you,

John Jantsch (04:43): You, you were an athlete, but you did you just wake up one day and say, I’m gonna try the hardest sport possible, and oh, and by the way, I can’t swim.

Siri Lindley (04:51): Right? So I’d been a field hockey, ice hockey and lacrosse player, but I, at the time when I found triathlon, I actually had just discovered that I was gay. And it was a big discovery that was scary at that time. And my father, my hero, didn’t respond very well to that. And I lost my father when he realized that I was gay. So this kind of set me on this desperate mission. Mm-hmm. to prove to myself that even though I was gay, I could achieve something that I thought was special, that I could make a difference in the world, that I could be loved, that I could respect myself and find a worthiness from within. And it was literally the day after our phone call where that was it. At that time, when I found triathlon, I went and watched a race, and I just loved that there were people of all ages, sizes, abilities, but they were all just like digging so deep to right.

(05:49): Find more within themselves. So even though I didn’t know how to swim after watching that, I said, this is what I wanna do. And for me, for my sake to earn my own love, my own respect, I am going to, one day I’m gonna set the, the, the goal that one day I’m gonna be the best in the world, which was ridiculous. My first race, dead last, my first race, I’m yelled at, you know, people laughing at me. But for me, there was a really important reason why I at least had to show up and lean in and try.

John Jantsch (06:21): So at the top of that game, you’re diagnosed with a disease that gave you somewhere around 5% chance of survival. So how did that change the game

Siri Lindley (06:34): In every way? I mean, it’s in that moment, I think I’d spent my lifetime up until that point wanting to find freedom from within, wanting to find freedom from my pain, freedom to be all of who I am. And I’d found it, you know, I’d found it. And then I get this diagnosis and it brought me to my knees. But in the same note, like I’ll never forget standing there with my wife, finally I’d found the love of my life. And the doctor is talking to me and saying, Siri, you know, you’ve got a myeloid leukemia, you’ve got a genetic mutation. And my wife is screaming at the top of her lungs, I hear his voice, and the story I’m hearing is this is the end. And I wasn’t willing to live that story. So in that moment, even though I didn’t believe it myself, I said, I’m gonna survive and I’m going to thrive.

(07:33): Now think about this, John, even though I didn’t like, did I believe that in that moment? No, I’m terrified. I’m brought to my knees, I’m devastated, but I couldn’t afford to live. Imagine how I would show up if I agreed that this is the end. Mm-hmm. , would I show up ready to fight and do whatever it takes and find a way and, you know, discipline my folks in every moment? No. If it’s the end, I’m gonna show up a lot different to I’m gonna survive and I’m gonna thrive on the other side. So what meaning do you give a challenge like that? What meaning do you give it? Are you giving it a meaning that’s gonna lead you to showing up in a way that is going to help you move towards what you want? Or are you showing up in a way that is going to ensure the end? It’s up to you. And even though in that moment when I said those words, I didn’t necessarily believe it, I needed to become the person that did believe that she would survive, that did believe that she would thrive on the other side. What would she do? Future me that survives this? What would she do? What actions would she take? What meaning would she give what’s happening and be her every single day until I became her?

John Jantsch (08:49): How, and I suspect this is still hard to talk about sometimes, but how much of that belief do you attribute to actually surviving

Siri Lindley (08:59): All of it? Because think about this. I mean, the meaning you give something determines how you show up, what energy you show up with, which then determines the actions that you take. And I believe that was the most important thing, was deciding, knowing that my outcome was to survive this, my outcome. And I remember saying it, you know, I walked into the first big meeting I had with my medical team, and when I walked in, I could see the looks on their faces. And it was that look of like, oh my God, she’s so young and this is so sad. And I walked in and I said, look, I’m gonna survive this and I’m gonna thrive on the other side. This is gonna be my most beautiful triumph. And if there is anyone here that doesn’t believe in that, I need you to leave. Because I need to surround myself with people that believe as much as I do that this is possible.

(09:57): So think about like, who are you surrounding yourself with mm-hmm. , and what are you clearly articulating what you want? And is everyone else that’s on, you know, are they on board? But the, you know, from that point in every single moment where I was deeply suffering, I mean, in my darkest moments, I would catch myself and I would say Siri, like focusing on how sick you are, how weak you are, how terrified you are, that is not gonna help you heal. So I would change the channel just to gratitude for the fact that I had health insurance, gratitude for my doctors, my donors, my mom who slept on the couch in the hospital every night. And that gratitude was the bridge from despair to hope. That gratitude gave me a little bit more energy where I could make, make better decisions on what to focus on, and thus fill myself with more of what I needed to actually take steps towards surviving. And we all can do this.

John Jantsch (10:58): And now let’s hear a word from our sponsor, marketing Made Simple. It’s a podcast hosted by Dr. JJ Peterson and is brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. The audio destination for business professionals marketing made simple brings you practical tips to make your marketing easy and more importantly, make it work. And in a recent episode, JJ and April chat with StoryBrand certified guides and agency owners about how to use ChatGPT for marketing purposes. We all know how important that is today. Listen to marketing Made Simple. Wherever you get your podcasts.

(11:35): Hey, marketing agency owners, you know, I can teach you the keys to doubling your business in just 90 days, or your money back. Sound interesting. All you have to do is license our three-step process that’s gonna allow you to make your competitors irrelevant, charge a premium for your services and scale perhaps without adding overhead. And here’s the best part. You can license this entire system for your agency by simply participating in an upcoming agency certification intensive look, why create the wheel? Use a set of tools that took us over 20 years to create. And you can have ’em today, check it out at DTM world slash certification. That’s DTM world slash certification.

(12:22): So I have heard, you know, many people who have overcome such adversity survived, uh, when they weren’t expected to, you know, come out of the other side of that with like, well now I really, I have a debt to pay, right? I mean, I now have to, like, you had accomplished a lot already, but I suspect that that drives you to say, you know, who am I not to accomplish more?

Siri Lindley (12:43): 1000000%, John. I mean, you’re spot on with that. And you know, I lost a lot of friends that were on the same clinical trials as me, as me, and I’m not gonna live this life with survivor’s guilt. I’m gonna live this life with survivor’s responsibility, that I have a responsibility to bring every ounce of my soul into this world and to hopefully make a positive difference in the world and every human that I encounter. And that’s where this book was born. You know, that there was a very powerful moment as I, where I was really sick and I actually didn’t know, you know, God, what if I’m not here tomorrow? Mm-hmm. . And in a moment like that, you start thinking about, well, gosh, like is it okay if, like, if this is my last day, did I live my life in a way that, that I, I’ll be happy with?

(13:37): And as I thought about it, you know, there were certain things that, that were the most important to me. And that was, did I love with all my heart? Did I love everyone in my life? Did I show them love? Did I tell them I love them? Did I love what I did? Did I love myself? Like, like did I love with all my heart? Did I live fear fearlessly? Meaning did I say yes to things that scared the crap out of me? Yeah, I had, you know, I did triathlon, I sucked. That was scary. I did it. So that was fearless. But you know, there are other things I can do more. I can be more. And lastly, you know, did I make a difference in the world? And I had, you know, with my athletes, I touched their lives. I made a difference.

(14:25): But I thought, God, there’s just so much more that I can do. In that moment, John, in that moment of reflection that was really difficult in that moment, I realized what my purpose in life is. My purpose in life is to love with all my heart, to bring love into the world, and you know, to live fearlessly, to be an example, and to every single day try and make a difference in this world. And so when people ask like, why did I write this book now? It’s because this book is all those things. This book is my mission, this book is my purpose. This book delivers all of that. And for me, I just know that it’s gonna help so many people because this isn’t a book about me, it’s a book about me saying, Hey John, let me take your hand. You know, I’ll tell you my story, but now, you know, let’s do a little deep dive into what matters most to you, and let’s find a way for you to overcome challenges that seem insurmountable. Let’s find a way for you to make the impossible possible. And that’s my gift. And I know that hopefully it will be a gift to everyone that reads it.

John Jantsch (15:42): So, so you coach athletes and you also coach non-athletes as a life coach. Is there a difference, really? Obviously they have different, totally different goals and things, but is there really a difference in terms of how you break through

Siri Lindley (15:55): John? I love that question because I had a hilarious, so I had an athlete, Merinda Carre of four time world champion, coached her for 14 years. And just in the last couple of years, I’ve really moved away from coaching triathletes and more coaching humans. And I was having a conversation with her and she said, but Siri, you’ve always been a life coach. And I’m like, what are you talking about? She said, oh my God. Like, yes, you coach swimming, biking, and running, but you are much more a life coach than like a swim bike and run coach. And so it occurred to me that this isn’t anything different at all. I’m just actually calling it what it should have been called all along. So that’s such a good question. I love that you caught that because no, it’s the same thing. A minus the going to the pool and you know, showing people how to swim and all the technical details. But I’m just continuing everything that I’ve done for 25 years.

John Jantsch (16:56): Well, most life coaching is about mindset changing or mindset adopting. And I mean, as a triathlete, how much of your success is mindset?

Siri Lindley (17:07): I, I would say, and I tell my athletes this, I know people talk about 80% mental, 20% physical. Right? I actually think it’s more, I think it’s like 90% mental, 10% physical. And any time you see an athlete struggling at any point in their career, it’s a mental shift that’s needed, not a physical one. Yeah. And so for that reason, there is, it’s like, you know, you have a, a formula with your duct tape marketing, you have a formula and it’s, you know, you’re showing people how to achieve and how to repeat those results and to continue to, like, it’s the same thing with as we stay attuned to our mental state and what we’re bringing to the table, whether it be in business, in sport, and our lives and our relationships, as we pay attention to that and we put the same formula to that, you can have that continued success. And it is absolutely crucial. It’s staying, it’s keeping you connected to, you know, what matters most to you, why you’re doing this in the first place, and staying connected to that and staying connected to a mindset that is gonna see you every single day, no matter whether you’re in a good time or a bad time, it’s gonna see you moving forward, not back. And that’s the key.

John Jantsch (18:28): You know, it’s funny, I think a lot of times when people think of athletes, all, all they really see is race day. Right? And I always laugh, I, because I think entrepreneurs, you know, are, it’s race day every day, , you know, and sometimes I don’t think, you know, a good athlete, I mean a true, you train hard, you rest hard, , you know, you focus on all the, you know, all the routines. And I think a lot of times entrepreneurs just show up and it’s race day every day. And we sometimes don’t take care of, you know, ourselves to prepare, you know, for race day.

Siri Lindley (18:57): That’s right. And I think, you know, uh, the thing about being an athlete, you may have a race once a month, but it’s day after day, showing up, leaning in and doing the work. You know, it took me eight years from when I started triathlon to become a world champion. It didn’t happen overnight. And there was a lot of failure involved. And I think this is crucial to, let’s look at your definition of success and failure. Let’s create definitions of those two things that actually see you building momentum and succeeding every day. For me, success was progress. If I make a tiny bit of progress every single day, either physically, mentally, emotionally, I’m succeeding. And then for me, failure was learning. Mm-hmm. , every time we fail, that’s when we’re gonna learn the most. That’s when we’re gonna grow. That’s when we are gonna become the person we need to be to achieve the goal. So for me, even though I sucked and I’m failing coming in last, because I defined success as progress, failure is learning, I was always moving forward. And that’s what kept me going to get to the point where I needed to go.

John Jantsch (20:09): Yeah. I, from years of hindsight, um, observing this, I can say that, you know, I’ve gotten to the point in my business where if something doesn’t happen that it was, that I thought was supposed to, or that I thought I wanted to, I’ve really started as Pollyanna as this sounds, I’ve I’ve really started saying, okay, something else, Amma more amazing is supposed to happen. .

Siri Lindley (20:27): Yes. I love that attitude. And here’s the thing, that attitude serves you. It does. So why would you give it any other meaning that’s gonna make you feel bad or discourage you or you lose confidence? Like, don’t do that. Like give things a meaning that is actually gonna empower you and move you forward.

John Jantsch (20:45): Yeah. Tell me a bit about your, your nonprofits. You obviously there’s, I I can barely see a picture of a horse there as a part of it. So tell me a little bit about Rescue Ranch, I’m sorry. Believe Ranch and Rescue, and then Horses in Our Hands Survivor and Thriver.

Siri Lindley (21:00): RWell believe ranch and Rescue. We actually rescue horses from slaughter. 60,000 horses a year when we started, were being slaughtered for human consumption. And it was just a horrific practice. This horse came into my life and changed me in a matter of months. And when I got online and looked up, why did I need to rescue a horse, that’s when I realized what was happening. So that was about six years ago. Since then, we’ve saved 265 horses. Hmm. Most of whom have gone on to heal humans. So it’s come full circle. They are incredible healers, people with anxiety, trauma, P T S D, people facing, you know, really dire diagnoses. It’s just the work that we do almost every weekend is just so profoundly, uh, transformative for people. So, but from that, we’d rescued 265 horses and we thought, you know, this is a bandaid.

(22:00): So we formed another nonprofit horses in our Hands, which is a 5 0 1 C four, which is lobbying in Washington DC to actually pass a bill that will ban this once and for all. And through our Raising Awareness campaign, we’ve reached 84 million homes. Wow. Sent about 250,000 letters. And the numbers of horses being slaughtered has gone from 60,000 to 23,000 last year. So even though the bill hasn’t passed, our work has really had an impact on, in raising awareness, lowering that number. You know, 40,000 horses are still here today. Yeah. Thanks to our work. So it’s very important work for us because it’s saving the horses who are saving the humans, and that just feels like the ultimate privilege to do this kind of work.

John Jantsch (22:50): Awesome. Well, we didn’t get into chapter by chapter on, uh, finding a Way, but I really wanted to have, uh, people here a sense of you, because that comes through in the book as well. But, uh, please invite people to where they might connect or find, find the book, or whatever you wanna share.

Siri Lindley (23:05): Awesome. Well, finding a way, taking Impossible and making it possible forward, written by Tony Robbins, my greatest mentor.

John Jantsch (23:13): Yeah, I, I meant to point that out. I mean, you mentioned that was a book that really impacted you. Obviously Tony Robbins didn’t know who you were at that point, and now to come, you know, full circle with that to where he writes the forward and he does a testimonial video, that’s pretty, pretty awesome.

Siri Lindley (23:27): Yeah, I, it feels he’s just, he truly has lit the path for me, for my entire life without even knowing it. But to have him write the forward just means everything to me. So that’s pretty special. But if you want to download a, a free chapter text, GOFIRST to 6, 6 8, 6 6, and you’ll get a free chapter. Mm-hmm. . But most importantly, I hope that you’ll get online and buy the book. A dollar of every book goes to Feeding America. Tony is gonna match that. So $2 of every book goes to Feeding America and the rest, anything that comes to me is going to save horses. So it’s for a good cause. But most importantly, I believe that this book, should you give it a try, is gonna really change your life. I believe in that, and I’m so looking forward to sharing it with all of you. And I thank you, John, so much for offering me the opportunity to share a little bit of me and a little bit about this mission and purpose. It means so much to me. You’re amazing. I

John Jantsch (24:31): Love to work. Thank, thank you so much. I appreciate you stopping by the Duct Tape Marketing Podcast, and hopefully we’ll run into you one of these days out there on the road.

Siri Lindley (24:39): Can’t wait. Thank you, John.

John Jantsch (24:41): Hey, and one final thing before you go. You know how I talk about marketing strategy, strategy before tactics? Well, sometimes it can be hard to understand where you stand in that, what needs to be done with regard to creating a marketing strategy. So we created a free tool for you. It’s called the Marketing Strategy Assessment. You can find it @marketingassessment.co, not.com. Co. Check out our free marketing assessment and learn where you are with your strategy today. That’s just marketing assessment.co. Atd. Love to chat with you about the results that you get.